By Ron Rop
Local Sports Journal
A pistol-toting spectator from Hudsonville Freedom Christian brought a boys soccer game to an abrupt halt on Thursday night.
Western Michigan Christian coach David Hulings pulled his team off the field and asked fans to exit Warrior Field after the fan, who was asked to leave the property after he was seen carrying a gun, returned several minutes later. Several spectators from Freedom Christian confirmed the man was connected with the Falcon team.
Freedom Christian was awarded a 2-0 victory in a game that was stopped with about 30 minutes remaining in the second half.
“Had he left it would have been fine, but he came back,” said Hulings.
WMC boys soccer coach David Hulings
It was not known if the fan returned with the gun, however, a holster was seen on his right side when he did return. His shirt was tucked inside his pants on the right side and the holster was clearly visible. Hulings said he saw the holster, wasn’t sure if the gun was still inside so he immediately pulled his team off the field.
WMC assistant coach Mike Teeter first spotted the fan with the gun and asked team trainer Shelly Ward to verify what he saw. Teeter then approached the fan and asked him to leave. In the meantime, WMC school officials called the police.
The fan had several men accompanying him. They were seen videotaping the entire incident from being first approached, being asked to leave then being escorted out the gate. They also videotaped what transpired in the parking lot when Officer Conrad from the Muskegon Police Department approached them and asked for identification and his permit.
Officer Douglas Conrad said the fan has a Concealed Pistol License and did nothing illegal. A recent ruling in Michigan states he is allowed to open carry a gun onto school property. Hulings said he was of the understanding that guns are not allowed on any school property.
It was the safety of his players and fans that was of utmost concern to Hulings, thus he pulled his team off the field and forfeited despite the fact his team was losing the game 2-0.
Officer Conrad said it’s becoming more and more common for pistol carriers to videotape such incidents and put them on YouTube with the message to the effect of “our gun rights are being infringed upon or challenged.”
Thank you coach – for putting the safety of our kids and fans first!!!
But does the law include school property if the school is private like WMC?
That's a great question, Paula…We will look into it.
I've seen this posted at many schools public and private. 'This is a tobacco, alcohol, drug and weapon free zone'.
As they should be.
But I strongly suspect, in light of tonight's developments, that's hardly the case.
Yes, but if he is asked to leave he must do so. The funny thing is,he may have the concealed weapons permit but he cannot conceal carry on school property, but he can open carry. These open carry proponents love to push the envelope, and video the incident, especially when law enforcement is involved.
The law tends to get very confusing when it comes to concealed licenses and open carry.
keep in mind he was "open carrying" as Scott said, the laws pertaining to this are completly different from "concealled" weapons.
According to http://miopencarry.weebly.com/ it is not legal to open carry in a sports arena. I would consider Warrior stadium a sports arena.
I think "sports arena" is defined by how many people it holds, if that makes sense. I'm on the fence on this one…I don't think it's fair that I can not protect myself if someone decides to break the law and bring a gun to some place they shouldn't (crazy)
Actually, sports arenas are off limits to people who do not have a CPL. If you read below in this article, as long as you have a safety inspected weapon and possess a CPL within that state you are within your rights to carry a gun in a holster at a sports arena. I agree that it is not exactly the best form of judgement, but it is legally within the rights of a person who is abiding by the laws of gun owners.
Brent, that's only true if a person does not have a concealed pistol license. The article says this man has a CPL. The man did nothing illegal except possibly fail to immediately comply with a request to leave private property.
I argued the fact that it is illegal to open carry at a church or place of religious worship. With it without a CPL. I would consider WMC school property a place of worship, I watch those young men pray together before every game.
When I say argues the fact I mean the fact that he was within the law to carry at the soccer field.
The law is somewhat upside down. If you do not have a CPL, You may not posess a gun on school property in either an Open Carry mode or concealed. Those with a CPL also cannot concealed carry BUT they may OC. Private property rights always trump gun laws. He can be asked to leave at a private school but not a public one.
Signs alone do not carry the force of law in Michigan. The gun laws in Michigan are just part of the story. Private property rights and trespass laws are the rest. Reporters need to do higher quality homework and write much clearer stories.
MCL 750.234d allows you to carry a firearm in a church or place of worship if you have a concealed pistol license.
MCL 28.422 prohibits the carrying of a concealed weapon in a church or place of worship unless you are granted permission to do so by the church and possess a valid CPL.
Open carry with a CPL in a church would be lawful as would concealed carry with a CPL and permission to carry concealed by the church.
Brady Schickinger The way I understand it a CPL must be concealed and in this particular case it was not concealed. It was an open carry on the side of the persons waist band and clearly visible.
For those of you who are unaware how Michigan law works
MCL 750.237a(5)(c) exempts someone from carrying a firearm in a school as long as the are licensed to carry a concealed firearm
MCL 28.422 prohibits the possession of a concealed firearm in a school or on school property
The Federal Gun Free School Zone Act exempts someone from the 1,000' rule as long as they are licensed to posses a firearm from the state that the school zone resides in.
Therefore the open carry of a firearm by someone with a concealed pistol license is a lawful activity provided they are conducting themselves in an otherwise lawful manner.
The thing of it is…..common sense tells most people that carry to leave it in their car. I am all for the rights to own a gun, my ex and son are avid hunters. My daughters all know how to respect and shoot a gun, my daughter just shot her first buck. My husband is a Veteran and has respect for guns as well as a MP in the military. I just am having a hard time understanding why at a school event. If it is a point needed to be made, come on not a school sports event.
It's not common sense, it is the law. He is not supposed to have that gun on him at a child's sporting event.
gosh,it almost sounds like the guy went to his car, put the gun in the car, and returned with an empty holster. When I enter somewhere I can not legally carry then I leave my gun in the car, the holster stays on. from the article he returned with a holster and no one verified it carried a weapon.
I do like how it mentions that the coach came back and saw the holster, the persons shirt was tucked into their pants…and he couldnt see if there was a firearm in the holster, like seriously?
flap holster maybe?
A school is a school whether private or public in regards to the law the only difference is that a private school can ask him to leave and he would have to or be charged with trespassing whereas a public school cannot.
Do people even use those anymore?
And for over reacting and taking away the kids chance to finish the game with pride. Thank you coach.
I would, maybe, for a demonstration, maybe
Brady I think it would depend on who asked. if another parent asked I don't think that would stand up in court, if a teacher or principal asked that might be another thing entirely. I also don't know where the soccer coach would fall in this as well.
he pulled his team because of a holster he wasn't sure had a pistol in it? Was WMC losing the game and he thought what the heck, get home early for a change?
"It was not known if the fan returned with the gun, however, a holster was seen on his right side when he did return. His shirt was tucked inside his pants on the right side and the holster was clearly visible. Hulings said he saw the holster, wasn’t sure if the gun was still inside so he immediately pulled his team off the field."
Brad Burton the right to self defense stops at the soccer field?
I am for gun rights- however, I believe that nothing wrong was done. I was also under the impression that no one except for law enforcement could carry a weapon on school grounds.
With all the shootings lately, I believe the coach acted in a good way. Better safe than sorry.
how does removing a lawfully carried gun protect anyone? that's as silly as saying the police aren't allowed to carry at a school because guns are dangerous. the police aren't any better than anyone else. their badges don't grant them magical superpowers. they can't be everywhere to protect you.
yes jill… leave your gun in a school parking lot where it's un-watched and where it's far away if you need it… what could possibly go wrong?
btw, if you say "i am all for" something and then explain how you're not all for it… you're not all for it.
if you're having trouble understanding this, you might want to look up how many mass shootings have happened at schools.
Brad Burton you might want to check the law before you start making things up.
Hey Adam, I know that a person that was open carrying a pistol last night was asked to leave Willard library…thought you might be interested in that!!!
Jared Fulton I was talking to Joel about that, we've devised a plan ;)
And they definitely arent better trained.
Speaking as somebody who plays sports and goes to this school, I have to say, I actually feel safer knowing that there are law-abiding people who carry. I agree, he should not have returned after being asked to leave, however, is it really in safety's best interest to remove all lawfully-carried weapons from the scenario? I strongly believe that it would be very discouraging to anyone with malintent that there are people with the ability and intention to protect themselves and others if something were to happen. If the man was originally asked to leave solely because he had a weapon, shouldn't it have been verified that he still had it with him before ending the game and having him escorted out?
That's not even to say anything about whether or not he should have been kicked out in the first place…
Removing the only person known to be properly equipped to protect anyone would qualify as putting kids safety last in my book.
I very much appreciate this post, most especially from a student at the school in question. It gives me a little faith that all hope for the next generation is not lost.
Jill you need to ask yourself why ALL but one of the mass shootings were in "Gun Free Zones". Criminals know this and know they can get more news time with a larger body count. If killers knew that people "can" fight back then they might think twice. Please enlighten us with one mass shooting at a gun range, gun show, or other well armed facility. There haven't been any in the USA.
To you, and also Brad who also replied: It is neither common sense nor the law. Adam Yancer explained the legal above.
People carry legally to protect their lives. Whose lives are more worth protecting than our youth? So why,then, would we remove the necessary tools to do that? Publically advertising that people are not allowed to be legally armed makes it *more likely* that someone would choose that location as a target.
I was at the game last night. Today, I talked to a couple more people who also were there and saw and heard this young man. Yes, he was legal to carry. However, when you stand there and start screaming "FREEDOM, FREEDOM" over and over and over, you begin to wonder … Yes, WMC was playing Freedom Christian and reportedly, the guy's younger brother is on the team. That being said, his tone of voice, in the opinion of a guy I talked to this morning, made it sound more like he was proclaiming his freedom to open carry a gun on school property than cheering on the soccer team. That was his opinion, of course. To everyone I've talked to, this was a theatrical performance and he was using a high school sporting event as his stage. And when his buddies started videotaping, it was clearly a performance that had little to do with self defense or protecting his fellow soccer fans or the players.
Freedom, like Hudsonville Freedom? I don't know at all, I'm just wondering.
I agree, better safe then sorry!!
Glad I'm not the only one who put that together… I've played soccer for a long time and never heard a fan cheer in such a way.. Gave me an eerie feeling
sorry, "i am for gun rights" and "however" are mutually exclusive. pick one or the other. and no, you are not correct, in michigan an individual licensed to carry a concealed firearm may openly carry that firearm on school property. however, they cannot conceal. if anything is to blame here it's hard to understand convoluted laws and ignorance of the general public regarding those laws.
i say carry the gun wherever..no a days you never know where or when you need it
9/20/2013: "Two drivers are dead after a "road rage" incident in the Ionia, Mich., area escalated into a shootout, WZZM-TV in Grand Rapids is reporting."…."Both men had licenses to carry concealed weapons, according to authorities".
The man's behavior at the WMC/Freedom Christian game is where I take issue. How long should we have waited to see if he was law abiding citizen, a drunk, or suffering from PTSD? Sometimes you have to make a judgement call, and I support WMCHS's coaching/athletic staff in their decision.
If you want to carry, please behave in a way that leaves no room for doubt that you are, in fact, a law abiding citizen.
Now I get your last night's post. Wow. Guns are okay On school property? Scary at best. The most disturbing part is that folks are videotaping and putting it on utube…
Brad Burton Please cite the law….
With permission…… None was given or asked for.
Tracy Schepers Carpenter they video tape the law enforcement encounters so that if their rights are violated they have a leg to stand on. If it comes down to "he said/the officer said" and there is no evidence as to what the officer said they will side with the officer 100 times out of 100 times. Video and audio recordings keep the police honest and if it doesnt then the people have a way to prove that yes, my rights were violated.
Jodi Deur, and who makes that call? The holstered gun you can see is not the gun you should be worried about…to the contrary at least you know where it is, there could have been 20 people illegally carrying a concealed weapon at the school hoping to get into a gang shootout at half time and you wouldnt have known it until the guns came out. The ones you can see and that are holstered are the least of your problems.
I think the guy wanted to make a statement about his 2nd amendment rights and he got the attention he wanted.
I have difficulty accepting anyone carrying a weapon to a sporting event knowing how emotions can be rather volatile; it would be tragic if someting rash happened in the "heat of a moment", both for the perpetrator and victim.
Yep, I'm sure that was his plan all along. Good thing that hero was there to save all of those kids, parents and fans from certain danger. It's also good that he had camera toting friends there to record his heroic act.
Probably a skillful shot, now just needs training in common sense. Bad combination.
Right or not, the alleged "law abiding citizens" from the article are just being jerks, to put it nicely.